The Men Will Talk to Me (Ernie O'Malley series Kerry)

Interviews from Ireland's Fight for Independence

Cormac O'Malley, Tim Horgan

• Publisher: Mercier Press
• Year: 2012
• ISBN:
  9781781170984
• Topic: History
• Subtopic: World History
• Index: History

County Kerry saw many of the most vicious episodes in both the War of Independence and the Civil War. Many Republican survivors of these events were reluctant to speak about their experiences, even to their own family. However, they were willing to talk to Ernie O'Malley, who was the senior surviving Republican military commander from the period of those struggles. By transcribing O'Malley's notebooks, where he recorded these interviews, Cormac O'Malley and Tim Horgan have made available previously unpublished first-hand accounts of Kerry's role in the fight for independence. The interviews provide an unrivalled insight into this important period of Irish history, including controversial incidents such as the Ballyseedy massacre, the battle at Headford Junction and executions by the Free State forces.

SOUTH AND WEST KERRY

GREG ASHE

(UCDA P17b/132, pages 38–45)

Gregory ‘Greg’ Ashe (1889–1975) was born in Kinard, Lispole, in West Kerry. He was educated in Lispole national school. In 1914 he emigrated to America, initially to Boston and then to New York. His brother Thomas was the leader of the 1916 Rising in North County Dublin and died on a hunger strike for political status in Mountjoy Gaol in 1917. While in New York, Gregory Ashe became involved in Irish Republican support groups in the city and to evade conscription he secretly returned to Ireland in December of that year. After an initial period in Dublin, he returned to Kinard and became active in the Irish Volunteers, being attached to the Lispole Company of the Dingle Battalion of the Kerry No. 1 Brigade. He was involved in many of the actions in the West Kerry area. In the Civil War he fought on the anti-Treaty side and was eventually captured near Lispole. He was imprisoned in Tralee and in the Curragh, and was released in 1924. After the war he married Bridie Clare and the couple lived on the Navan Road, Dublin. He worked as a company representative for a food distributor and travelled throughout the country in this role. He took no active part in politics and died in 1975.

This interview took place in Dublin, probably in 1951.

[38L] I left in 1914 for New York. I met Mellows in New York in September or August.¹ He wasn’t long over and he was very closely watched. A motor car with four red wheels was after him. They didn’t arrest him. They would have a chat with him. I left on 23rd of April 1918. Liam M. told me that his backside was out of his trousers and that he was hungry. He lived with Paddy Kirwan from Wexford.² Séamus Robbins said that Liam lived on the fat of the land.³ He didn’t pull with Kenny (dead) in the Clan office of the Clan na Gael paper.⁴ Seán MacDiarmada’s brother is in it now but he is not of much use.⁵ Mellows was going to come with me. He fixed up my passport and he got caught.⁶ Paddy McCartan was spotted aboard a ship. I boarded a ship at the next pier.⁷ He was too well known. He used to visit Miss Gifford, Grace Gifford’s sister.⁸ They arrested him in Montreal, which was a trick with the Yanks but if he had remained quiet he was all right. 2 nights in Montreal (Halifax) when the city went up in an explosion. One wing was blown off the gaol. Harbour arrested there. Séamus Robbins was in Liberty Hall. He came across some time in 1920.

In November or December, a Kerry fellow was getting arms across as he met Mellows in Ireland. Seán Cleary got stuff for GHQ in London and he told me about it.

I stayed in Dublin for 12 months then and I went to Kerry.

I met Collins the day after landing here in Dublin.⁹ The first question he asked me was if I had been before the Alien Officer to be questioned, so I never knew about it but I came as a sailor, an A.B.¹⁰ A Belgian told me that 4 of us had to go before the Alien’s Officer, a Belgian, a Swiss and Spaniards. He was sitting there and he called me first, though I was third on the list. He asked me my name. ‘Keep that now and you’ll get paid tomorrow’, and we said, ‘Beannacht Dé [39R] leat’.¹¹ He sent the 3 up to Limehouse.¹²

‘What kind was he?’ asked Collins.

‘He was a dark stout man,’ I said, ‘with two bandy legs.’

‘That’s Joe or Jim Murphy from Drimoleague.’

So Collins knew his men everywhere.

I was on the Adriatic, a 25,000 ton liner. There did 9 of us sign in together; Tommy Connor, Johnny’s brother, McCartan, Pat Brazil, the town clerk in Waterford, Seán Hennessy of Cork and Seán McDermott’s brother. McDermott got caught next day and he was out on bail in New York from $5,000 to $6,000. We got Union Books. I was supposed to be in The Great Lakes on the 6th of June at Conscription. 9 of us got them, the books, and I gave it to a lad to give it back to Mellows and he got it. A week before I left he asked me if I would pick [up] a Union Book and I gave it to him before I left. I stole [it] from a Paddy Burke of Youghal and it suited Mellows down to the ground. He used to go to Fr Sharkey in 22nd Street, Liam.

IRB

Cahill was in charge of it. I joined it when I was a lad.¹³ Cahill was the Brigadier. Johnny Connor should have been in charge.¹⁴ I was in ‘B’ Co, 5th Bn, Dingle Company. Lispole is near Dingle. Cahill was born in Tralee town. He should never have been there. He was changed on the 24th March 1921. ‘B’ Co is in Strand Road and half a company, Mick Moriarty’s, in Fenit. The two companies in Tralee went against him. Cahill had the rifles that were there, 20 or over that number. They had great country to fight in. They went as far as Killorglin, Farranfore, Gortatlea, Firies and Castleisland. Tom McEllistrim’s battalion left them and went with ‘Free’ Murphy into East Kerry.¹⁵ Kerry No. 1 Bde had 9 Bns in it for it was big. It went to Killorglin, 3 or 4 miles west on in to Castleisland, on to Ballylongford, Brosna. The peninsula was fine, but there was shag all done. Quille had a column out in North Kerry under Con Dee, a damn good one with 25 rifles.¹⁶ Con Dee is in Chicago now.

[39L] In Listowel, see Paddy Callaghan, national teacher, between Listowel and Ballybunnion. He’ll give you the whole history of North Kerry, the shooting at Gortaglanna when Dee burst away from them and he jumped for it when he got inside the ditch and Paddy Dalton and Jerry Lyons were killed.¹⁷ The Tans caught them. They had dumped their arms on account of having the itch so as to get a doctor from Listowel. They lined them up to shoot them. Dee got away but he had a wound.

There was an ambush at Lispole.¹⁸ They got around us, about 30, [with] about 18 to 20 rifles. Paddy Cahill was there. We were on the road waiting for them, for 2 or 3 lorries of Tans with a District Inspector, a bloody toff. They came along the road to the west of us. They knew we were there. They halted on the road from Dingle and they spread out on either side. We saw them halt and spread out, not a mile away, and we stayed there. Some idiot told Cahill that they were gathering men to fill in trenches. We were here in a bohereen (A) 15 yards away and we were higher, 15 feet higher.¹⁹ There were about 20 of us and across the road at a bridge, there were 8 rifle men. Between the road and bohereen, there was an old school house. There were 4 men there, and there was a Duck gun loaded with the heads of horseshoe nails.²⁰ There was plenty of powder in it, and it was cocking out of a window.

The British spread out on both sides. I knew the country well. We never pulled out. He [Cahill] was a cranky little devil. ‘There are no men to gather up, we’ll go up with you’, and I went up. I saw [40R] 3 of them, but they didn’t see me. I came down to an old gap which was between two bushes and across the road in the fields was the District Inspector with a Lewis [gun] and he cut the branches over my head. The fellows on the bridge skeeted and the men in the house skeeted and he asked us to retreat. Tom Connor, Killorglin, Tadg Brosnan, Paddy Cahill, Tom Bawn (Kennedy), a drunken idiot. Tom Ashe, cousin, came back to us.²¹ We were stuck inside in a hole. The front was low but the back was high and we knelt in water. There was a gate in front, bushes in front. There were 7 Tans at the gate. ‘Tadg,’ I said, ‘what will I do?’ and we were prepared to fight. It was 3 Tans came up towards us. ‘Tadg, I’ll have to do it damn quick’, and I had 2 cartridges which were full of the heads of horseshoe nails. I saw three rifles going in the air. I sprayed the two shots at them. They ran, the 7 of them, one of them was badly wounded and he lost a leg. They blamed us for using dum-dum bullets.

They were in front of us. Afterwards, 4 or 5 of them were before this cave on the field to the left to the west of us. And Tom Connor climbed up and shouted, ‘Surround them lads.’ Then they ran. Connor was a damned good soldier and he fired at them. We were still in this hole. A rickety (ricochet) bullet came in and Tom Ashe was wounded in the spine and he died 5 or 6 hours later. There were 5 or 6 of us in it. The next thing they were gone, as we thought. I was smaller but Tadg was 6 foot 2 and I was hunched under the old bush. Five whores of Tans came down with 5 Dingle men.²² They had a rifle each, the whores. They were about 20 yards away and we had 6 or 8 shots at each other. Purvis, a Tan, burned the tortwill off my ear and we took the prisoners from off them. They left the Lewis [gun] after them at Lispole and they ran. They didn’t, in the name of God, know where we riz from and [40L] we were beaten to the ropes. We got 3 rifles off the Tans and we lost 1 rifle.

We had 11 rifles in our little Bn and our mark was (I.A.), our sheep mark.²³ 3 or 4 of our lads were in Kilmallock and he brought back my rifle. The stock was injured with the nail heads of the horseshoe nails. I had a gun which cost 55 guineas. It had belonged to Mick Lyden of Tralee. We were in the hole. Cahill and Tadg Brosnan hooked it, and Tom Connor was the next out. I couldn’t bring Tom Ashe and he was Tom Ashe’s first cousin. Tom Bawn [Kennedy] stayed. We were about an hour and a half in there. A little girl of about 9 years of age told us that they were gone. I picked up 2 rifles and the place was full of clothes and coats. We got a door off a farmer’s house. Then I heard, ‘Put them up.’ I had a shotgun and a poor devil from Tralee; he was struck in the forehead.²⁴ I thought he was a Tan and he died in Castlegregory side and Tom Ashe died that night.

We went up to a farmer’s house, the two wounded lads and before we went in I came across a Dr Casey, who had a dispensary in the Ring (or in Ring).²⁵ He died a few years ago. He was a Britisher and we were cousins. We went into Connor’s house and he gave the two lads a tin of whiskey. He fixed up his horse and there were 4 lorries coming along the road and the doctor skipped it. And here we were. Kennedy said, ‘We’ll take the horse.’

‘I won’t,’ said Connor, 55 years old. ‘I’ll go with the lads in a horse car along the bohereen.’

Tom Ashe was propped with the rifle in his hands to fight till he was killed. There were three of us, Murrough, Kennedy and I. We bobbed into Cahill and about 20 men. He never even saw the Tans coming and they were 100 yards away. [41R] I am sure that they had come out for the stuff which they had dropped and they must have seen us. We had 2 dead and 2 or 3 men ba...

Table of contents

• Contents
• Acknowledgements
• Abbreviations
• Preface
• Introduction
• North Kerry and Tralee
• South and West Kerry
• Chronology of Significant Events in Kerry related in the Interviews (1916–1923)
• Images
• About the Publisher