Real Talk
Conversations with Everyday Men
This chapter is a select sampling of the thousands of conversations I have had with men individually or in small and large groups. In my work with my organization, A Call To Men, I have spent a lot of time studying the relationship between well-meaning men and the role we play in a society where men’s violence against women is at epidemic proportions. I am passing on some of my shared experiences with men to help you reflect on your life as a well-meaning man. Far too often in our society women and girls are experiencing tragedy at the hands of boys and men because we have been taught that they are of less value than men and they are the property of men.
The discussions in this chapter are designed to help us recognize that as well-meaning men we have been taught knowingly and unknowingly to manage the fertile ground which allows abusive men to be who they are in the presence of good men. Well-meaning men far outnumber abusive men, but this chapter shows how we have some of the same perspectives. These conversations are aimed at helping well-meaning men see that in all of our goodness so much of our thinking and behaviors support a culture of male domination.
I believe in good men. When they are equipped with the reality and painstaking truth, our fathers, sons, brothers, and friends will step up to the plate and be accountable. I have included notes for you to reflect on some of those.
JAKE
As a man, I usually don’t think about this kind of stuff. I never had actual conversations with men on manhood. Of course I recall on numerous occasions men in my life saying, men don’t do this and men don’t do that, but I don’t recall many or any conversations on how to be a man. What goes on with a woman, whether she’s having a problem with guys hitting on her or saying things to her, was not on my radar.
And when you talk about objectification of women this is all eye-opening to me. It never crossed my mind until right now that my way of looking at women had an effect on them. I admit that I objectify women on a daily basis without even really being conscious of it. I am beginning to really see things differently. It’s funny how the bad guys get all the press, the ones who do the raping, slapping, and abusing. When in all actuality, the sexist attitude is coming from me too, from most men, the ones who are seen as the good guys.
I am beginning to accept the reality that my behavior as a man is important. Because I never broke the law or did anything illegal, I never associated my behaviors with that of abusive men. I do now realize that the small things that I do have a big impact on the day-to-day struggles of women.
TONY’S THOUGHTS
Jake is an example of how we as men are on what I call remote control—just doing things as we always have, and simply following tradition without question. This is very normal behavior for men. The exciting thing about Jake is that once his consciousness was raised about the issues of male domination, sexism, and violence against women, he began to rethink things. Jake began to be more of a critical thinker as it relates to manhood; in other words, he got off remote control and began to analyze his behavior and the behavior of other men. Jake is now positioned to challenge inappropriate behavior of men as well as teach sons and other boys healthy examples of manhood.
YOUR THOUGHTS
Are you on remote control?
Yes/No/Not Sure—Use the note space below to examine your thoughts.
Do you have conversations with men about manhood? Are those conversations for the purpose of promoting healthy manhood? Do you share in conversations with boys about being healthy men?
If promoting healthy manhood is your goal, what could you do more of?
SHAKIR
How we objectify women is deep when I really allow myself to think about it. As a young man, I spend a lot of time watching music videos. I also have to agree that many of them are like soft porn and are getting more and more out of control. The messages in the music videos are if you are a man with money, you also have power, respect, and lots of beautiful women at your disposal to be used as you choose. The women are always close to being naked, gyrating, and dancing in a very sexual way around the men. The men also seem to ignore the women as if to say they are not impressed by the attention.
The message here is that if you’re a man you can pick just one or have them all at the same time because you are in charge. A lot of times I actually see guys throwing money at the women in the videos, which say that women can be bought, further emphasizing the point that they are things, not human, play toys, and sexual objects. Ironically, my friends in the entertainment business tell me that most of the females in the videos are barely being paid, if at all.
What I have also found interesting is that we talk more about the women being inappropriate for dressing and dancing as they do. Rarely do we hold the men accountable for creating and sustaining the demand for this behavior. We don’t talk enough about men as the benefactor of this behavior. Often we make it appear that this is solely a women’s problem and we as men don’t have anything to do with it.
TONY’S THOUGHTS
Shakir has developed great insight and understanding into the objectification of women in our society. He also makes the important connection between objectification and dehumanization. This connection is very important when seeking to understand violence against women. When we dehumanize a person or a people we are less sensitive to their experience. Unfortunately we as good men stand by and watch terrible things happen to women without considering an intervention. There are other factors that can contribute to our inaction, but the relationship between objectification and dehumanization is a big part of it.
YOUR THOUGHTS
Do you see the objectification of women as a major issue in our society?
Yes/No/Not Sure—Use the note space below to examine your thoughts.
What are some personal behaviors you can begin to challenge that support the objectification of women?
What are some messages you would like to share with men and boys about this issue?
BILL
I’m an old guy, so in my day it was a lot easier when men were the protectors and providers for women. Men went to work, earned a living, stayed on a job for thirty years, got a gold watch and retired. We were expected to take care of the family and the wife would stay home and raise the kids. The wife was there when the kids got out of school; we didn’t have to worry about kids being alone and all the issues that come with that today.
Parents taught their daughters that they should be able to cook, go to college, find a husband, get married, and raise a family. Nowadays, women are far more independent and want to work for whatever reason. They want to make the same amount of money as men. Women today seem to be okay with being single, some would actually rather have a relationship with another woman instead of a man.
Some women today (my sister for example) look down on men and feel like they don’t need a man to take care of them. My sister is always speaking about this, I think she just uses it as a justification as to why no man wants to marry her. Some men resent women for acting like we are not needed. I think this also makes many men feel intimidated. A successful woman says things like, “I don’t need a man. I have my own money. I own a home. I have a nice car. I can get whatever I want.” Things like this disrespect men. I believe women should understand these things about men and not purposefully try to deflate our pride. I hate to say it but I think women have brought this violence issue on themselves. Not that it’s okay for anyone to be hit, I’m totally against that, but women have to acknowledge that they play a role in it.
TONY’S THOUGHTS
While Bill identifies himself as an old guy, and some of his views may seem to be outdated, there are many that share his views. Bill’s views on women playing a role in the violence they experience at the hands of men are what we frequently hear fro...